We're All Mad at the Debate Club

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We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Joey Stark » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:47 pm

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Welcome to our very special debate event! We’re so glad you fell down the rabbit hole and found yourself here of all places.

Over the coming weeks, everyone is invited to take part in our Wonderland themed debate topics. Not only are you guaranteed to have a lot of fun but there are also beans to win!

Each participant will get 5 beans for posting in any topic and an additional 5 if they post twice or more. In addition, we will be awarding another 20 beans per topic to the person with the best post. It’s in your interest to post as much as you like!

We do have to warn you though, we’ve spotted a disembodied smile a few times and there’s a lot of pink and purple cat hair about so be careful to read each topic’s instructions in case a certain someone switches up the rules…

Have fun and see you soon!
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Joey Stark » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:38 am

Welcome to our summer debate event! According to the pocket watch we've found, it's time for the first debate!

We're already suspicious here at the debate club that someone has been meddling behind the scenes, setting up some surprises for some later debate topics. We think there's a possibility it's the cheshire cat as it often disappears into thin air when get close, but how worried should we be?

The Queen of Hearts is painted as the villain of Alice in Wonderland, but should this title be given to someone else? After all, it's the Cheshire cat who tricks Alice into several dangerous situations but on the other hand, he never demands beheadings!

What do you think?

Who's the real villain of Alice in Wonderland? The Queen of Hearts or the Cheshire cat?

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We encourage you to try posting from different sides of the argument. If you see someone has posted from one side of the debate, try to look at the other position. Sometimes it can be a lot of fun to go against your own opinions! Try and keep posts upwards of 50 words, it gives other people more to debate and remember to be respectful!

You'll get 5 beans for posting in this topic once and 10 for posting two or more times but feel free to post as much as you'd like!
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Kathren Johnsun » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:17 pm

Since this is Wonderland, I’m going to throw a little extra twist into this debate. While I do think that both characters given by Joey have potential, I think Alice herself is the villain of Wonderland. Let me explain first, and then you can jump to defend her if you still believe that it is not her.

All of the things that the other characters do is appropriate, if not a little overboard, for what Alice has done to them first. She drinks something in a house that scares the Rabbit, who owns the house, and she gets rocks thrown at her. Alice asked the Cat where the Rabbit is, so the cat gave her the “best” people to talk to. Then, after the scene with the Mad Hatter, Alice decides to try and go home, only to get lost and ask the Cat for directions home. The Cat points her towards the Queen’s Castle where some cards get caught painting the roses. While other instances may have lead to Alice’s trial, Alice does call the Queen a “fat, pompous, bad-tempered old tyrant”. I don’t what you would do, but I might get mad and overreact if someone called me that, which is exactly what the Queen does. The ensuing chase causes Alice to wake up which means that the Cat did not lead her astray and was actually helping her.

Since we see all of these events through Alice’s eyes, she is framed as a helpless victim, when in actuality; she is the cause for all of it since Wonderland seemed to be working ‘fine’ before she showed up.
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Astrid Black » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:43 pm

You do make a lot of sense with Alice being the actual villain, Kathren. However, I have to say the Queen is indeed the villain. While Alice has admittedly done a lot while trampling around Wonderland, she has no idea what she's doing. Alice is a child and is acting as such. You go someone's house and a bottle says drink me. What is a child going to do? Drink it. It's a sweet on a plate. Regardless if it said eat me, a child would probably eat it. Most children have no filter when it comes to talking. They'll tell exactly what they think, regardless of what it is.

The Cheshire Cat does lead Alice astray and into trouble but the Queen is a ruling body that people are terrified of. Many of things people do that have their heads chopped off are pretty minute an offense given the sentence. I'm not saying Alice is blameless but she's innocent and naive. The Cheshire Cat is a troublemaker but he's generally just wanting to see action. The Queen is indeed a tyrant and uses the maximum force to ensure her rule. So while the Cheshire Cat may be Peeves, the Queen is Umbridge.
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Arianna Stonewater » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:00 pm

While Kathren makes some good points, I do partially agree with Astrid. Despite Alice's actions, she is still just a child led astray. In several movie versions, the King has to remind the Queen that Alice is just a child and so can't always be responsible for her actions/reactions. A place where beheading is a fitting crime for any action is not a "fine" place. We can see this in the dysfunctional way everyone bends to her will. The rabbit, her official announcer, flits about worrying he's late, the cards paint roses so they don't get in trouble. The king bends to the Queen's every will! In later movies Alice is the only one with the courage (naivety) to stand up to her!

If we were to take a Wicked approach, i'm sure sure there are other people to blame. Perhaps somewhere up the chain she is just misunderstood or she was treated terribly as a child (interestingly, i don't believe this story has been written yet....). But in our particular story, the Queen of Hearts is an adult and her choices definitely make her the villain. She's the one who has the rule over everyone's lives, and everyone does her bidding out of fear.
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Joey Stark » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:43 pm

I agree with the sentiment that Alice, as a child, thrown into a confusing and frustrating new 'reality', its hard to judge too much. I think the idea of Alice as a villain is really interesting though (I would like to that type of adaptation, a new person enters your world and interferes), but I digress :lol:.

The Queen of Hearts to me seems to be the most obvious choice of villain and therefore it's easy to foist that title upon her. Yes she is tyrannical, she may or may not have reasons (she is a woman in a primarily male kingdom, she may not want to appear weak!) and her actions are not excusable, but I do think because she's easy to blame, we miss out on the real villain of the story!

I think you're right Astrid when you say that the Cheshire cat 'wants to see action' but I think he's more than just a troublemaker. He has no regard for the danger caused by or who gets hurt in the action, he knows very well that the queen has a penchant for beheading people and sends a lost child her way. He seems to enjoy the confusion, unhappiness and potential harm of others with no sign of remorse or empathy. Traits like this in people tend to suggest psychopathy! Not only that, Disney, who created the animated adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, classed him as a villain merchandise wise, along with the likes of Ursula and Scar.

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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Kathren Johnsun » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:28 pm

Well, if we are going to bring in Disney classifications, there is another character classified as a Disney “Villain” that would also fit into the kind of argument that I posed for Alice being the villain earlier. Gaston from the Beauty and the Beast could also very easily be seen as misunderstood/having the right intentions.

I have also found out that Alice is believed to be about seven (her age is not mentioned until the sequel where she is 7.5). If I am thinking correctly, seven year olds do have a filter for their language. If this is true, then she should know not to say it, and if it is not, I don’t know where she would have heard that phrase to begin with.
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Leonie Hauri » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:13 am

“Alice: How long is forever?
White Rabbit: Sometimes, just one second."


Excellent arguments to everyone who posted last week! I'm not sure whether the Queen or the Cheshire Cat (or even Alice!) is the most evil, but either way I would suggest avoiding all suspicious characters should you ever find yourself lost in Wonderland. Speaking of suspicious characters, keep an eye out for a floating smile...

It appears to be time for a new debate topic - or is it? Time tends to work in strange ways when one is in Wonderland. Which of course brings up the whole question of time itself. In Wonderland, Time is a physical person, but on Earth time is less straightforward. What is time, precisely? An aspect of the universe that keeps things going from the past to the present? A constant flow of moments all strung together? An illusion designed to measure from one moment to the next? Is time simply a measure we invented in order to distinguish moments gone from moments yet to come? Is time simply a matter of perspective, when while it may seem as though Moment A happened before Moment B, in reality both moments are happening instantaneously and we are moving from one to the next? Is 'time travel' scientifically possible? What exactly is the function of a Time Turner? So many questions, and it's up to you to give your best answer.

Remember, we are giving out five beans per post with a max of ten beans - but we are also giving an additional twenty beans to the best post, so give us your best arguments and debate away! You have plenty of time - or do you?

Wait is that a floating smile -

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HAHAHA those debate club heads think they can get away with labeling ME as a VILLAIN without a little MISCHIEF-MAKING on my part? So here's the deal - I'M going to change things UP a bit. You're going to do things MY way, and it's going to be FUN!

So first of all, I like this whole Time idea. Why not watch you humans argue over a topic you know nothing about? But what's the fun of it if you have logical and scientific arguments for everything? I didn't come here to listen to a lecture; I came here to stir up a little mischief and have some fun!

So instead of giving me your best arguments for whatever you think about Time, let's put a little twist on things, shall we? Instead of giving me your best arguments, I want to hear your worst ones! That's right, you can still give me your opinion, but I want it using the worst argument possible - whether it's your support, your evidence, your content, your structure - I want it to be so bad if you tried to bring it do a debate judge they would laugh in your face! Forget the logical explanations and scientific reasons - I want something downright awful, that wouldn't convince anyone of anything except your own insanity! Because remember, we're all mad here...

You can still get beans - as long as the debate club heads pay me likewise in catnip for all of the fun I'm causing - but the twenty beans will be for whoever posts the worst argument, not the best. So be prepared to give pathetic arguments and weak statements!

Oh, and whoever posted that I was the worst villain in Wonderland? You. Will. Pay.
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Re: We're All Mad at the Debate Club

Postby Leonie Hauri » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:47 pm

Whew, we managed to clear out that pesky cat and get things rolling again!

Anyhow, now that our time in Wonderland is ending, and everyone has (hopefully) managed to survive Wonderland and is on hand to assist our prefects in their trial!

Oh, wait. The prefects aren't the only ones on trial today.

You see, in Wonderland, things don't always work out the way they do here on Earth. Today, tomorrow, and yesterday aren't quite the same. It seems as though someone in Wonderland has been arrested for doing a crime they haven't committed yet, but will most likely commit in the future.

It seems that in Wonderland, sometimes criminals are arrested before they have committed a crime. While it is not 100% certain they will commit the crime they are being arrested for, it is very likely that in the future they will commit this crime. By being arrested before they commit the crime, the criminals cannot commit the crime, therefore potentially saving lives or possessions. Of course, there is the possibility they are completely innocent.

It seems that after the prefects have gone on trial, it is another criminal's turn for trial - the Mad Hatter! It seems this is not the first time he has been arrested for a crime he hasn't done yet. Once again, it's your turn to speak up during court - should the Mad Hatter be arrested for a crime he may or may not do in the future, potentially preventing the crime, but also potentially arresting an innocent man? Would your sentence change depending on the crime the Hatter committed?

It's time for you to step up and decide whether the Hatter should be arrested or released! The jury awaits.
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